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Computer Difficulty Question

 
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cleveland



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: May Tue 03, 2005 6:40 am    Post subject: Computer Difficulty Question Reply with quote

What do the difficulty levels (easy, normal , hard) refer to? Does it mean in the hard setting the computer will be "luckier" and give it certain advantages unavailable to the human opponent? Cheating in other words.

Or does it mean the computer will actually play better?
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: May Tue 03, 2005 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I'm currently busy testing some other theories, but the AI settings is next on my list. I'll get back to you when I have some good results. Cool
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cleveland



Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 13

PostPosted: May Tue 03, 2005 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, please do.

I've only ever played on Normal and I don't want to spend several hours on Hard only to find out that the computer is rolling sixes everytime.
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PostPosted: May Tue 03, 2005 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the few matches I have played, it does not seem that the computer cheats. It just seams smarter when playing on hard. For instance not just rushing into battle without recon, or at least it doesn't happen as much.

Another thing I have noticed is that it is more agressive, and attacks with a more balanced force.

The other thing I have noticed is that it adjusts its units to what you are attacking. For instance I like to use Apaches, so once I get a few of them they will start creating more anti air units. Also instead of just damaging units they are more opt to go for the kill.

The last thing I have noticed is that the computer tries to get you distracted more with assault helos on your cities behind your front line.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: May Tue 03, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
In the few matches I have played, it does not seem that the computer cheats. It just seams smarter when playing on hard. For instance not just rushing into battle without recon, or at least it doesn't happen as much.

Another thing I have noticed is that it is more agressive, and attacks with a more balanced force.

The other thing I have noticed is that it adjusts its units to what you are attacking. For instance I like to use Apaches, so once I get a few of them they will start creating more anti air units. Also instead of just damaging units they are more opt to go for the kill.

The last thing I have noticed is that the computer tries to get you distracted more with assault helos on your cities behind your front line.


The thing is, the AI does most of those things that on easy setting as well. Like I said, I will do some definitive tests. Cool
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: May Thu 19, 2005 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still early on in my tests, but the AI on Normal actually uses a Navy!

More tests to follow, but this could imply that higher AI levels will result in more varied strategies that the AI will employ. Still no transport aircraft just yet, but since I'm testing the normal AI, I won't know, but it's possible that the AI might build them on hard.

Anyhow, I will run more tests, but currently, I'm testing the stealths and other differences between the Easy and Normal AI. Twisted Evil
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ROBERT



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Aug Mon 01, 2005 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be just my apreciation, but untill now I haven´t seen much difference between normal and hard AI.

The differences I have apreciated though are between countries, I mean, I just finished a couple of games against Israel and Russia (same map), and each one did use different aproach tactics.

It seems that on hard level the AI tends to attack harder, and by harder I mean with more units mainly MBT´s, but that´s it.....

I hope someone had find something else...
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Aug Mon 01, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ROBERT wrote:
It might be just my apreciation, but untill now I haven´t seen much difference between normal and hard AI.

The differences I have apreciated though are between countries, I mean, I just finished a couple of games against Israel and Russia (same map), and each one did use different aproach tactics.

It seems that on hard level the AI tends to attack harder, and by harder I mean with more units mainly MBT´s, but that´s it.....

I hope someone had find something else...


I've seen more naval assets deployed and a more aggressive stance with assault (capture capable) helos. Though that's the step up from the Easy to Normal. I haven't seen as much of a dramatic increase from Normal to hard. Though, it seems I get more variety in their forces.
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tyrannical



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Aug Fri 05, 2005 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The AI isn't really THAT good.

Triangle island, me with 12 ATACMS. Only the very RARE enemy chopper accidently runs into and attacks my ATACMS's. Turn after turn I slaughter enemy ground forces.
A single coordinated air attack would have made me very sad, but never happened.

I also had several choppers for recon use, the three enemies built a total of ONE fighter the entire 10,000 enemy sub units I destroyed.

Enemy AI is basically attack with a medium sized balanced ground force.
Never have I seen it build up units for several turns and then launch a massive attack. Never seen in free play any type of coordinated air attack.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Aug Mon 08, 2005 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyrannical wrote:
The AI isn't really THAT good.


Agreed. Cool
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Aug Wed 17, 2005 9:33 pm    Post subject: Difficulty Reply with quote

I have played on Hard for most of the time I've played the game, and I've realized 'Hard' doesn't mean 'Smart', it means 'Cheap Ass'. For instance, the computer in Hard is a magical killing machine with near perfect accuracy. Sure, I still beat the comp 95% of the time, but I lose units unneccesarily because of cheap-assing.

For instance, I have an S level squad of Comanches with stinger missiles attack an enemy unit of E level Black Shark helicopters. Now when I decreased difficulty I noticed I did more damage, but in Hard I get lucky to kill one or two units with any given attack. That's what happened here, I kill one and damage another chopper, and they counter attack and utterly destroy half my unit! This same kind of thing happens all the time, and frankly its annoying when a grand strategy of mine is botched because of retarded computer cheating. But I find it hard to play at Normal because it's too easy, but Hard annoys me. Oh well.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Aug Sat 20, 2005 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Difficulty Reply with quote

ElricJC wrote:
I have played on Hard for most of the time I've played the game, and I've realized 'Hard' doesn't mean 'Smart', it means 'Cheap Ass'. For instance, the computer in Hard is a magical killing machine with near perfect accuracy. Sure, I still beat the comp 95% of the time, but I lose units unneccesarily because of cheap-assing.

For instance, I have an S level squad of Comanches with stinger missiles attack an enemy unit of E level Black Shark helicopters. Now when I decreased difficulty I noticed I did more damage, but in Hard I get lucky to kill one or two units with any given attack. That's what happened here, I kill one and damage another chopper, and they counter attack and utterly destroy half my unit! This same kind of thing happens all the time, and frankly its annoying when a grand strategy of mine is botched because of retarded computer cheating. But I find it hard to play at Normal because it's too easy, but Hard annoys me. Oh well.


Yeah, this is what really irks me about the AI. I know that you can make AI "good" even "great" without resorting to the AI blatantly cheating. At the lower levels, it hardly cheats at all, but then there's a sharp curve in which the AI juet becomes a lame steamroller with no rhyme or reason to its attacks.

I've seen the AI on purely naval maps try to march to me via a narrow piece of land and not use a single ship! However, it's massive tank force did some serious damage while enroute and it hardly used as much airpower as it should have. Like...wtf?

I dunno. The more I play the game, the more the little quirks start to get to me. I think I might simply put the game down for a few before I start NOT liking it. Confused
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Aug Sat 20, 2005 7:11 pm    Post subject: Cheap Assing Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeah, this is what really irks me about the AI. I know that you can make AI "good" even "great" without resorting to the AI blatantly cheating. At the lower levels, it hardly cheats at all, but then there's a sharp curve in which the AI juet becomes a lame steamroller with no rhyme or reason to its attacks.

I've seen the AI on purely naval maps try to march to me via a narrow piece of land and not use a single ship! However, it's massive tank force did some serious damage while enroute and it hardly used as much airpower as it should have. Like...wtf?

I dunno. The more I play the game, the more the little quirks start to get to me. I think I might simply put the game down for a few before I start NOT liking it.


Yeah, I'm starting to think along the same lines. Going back to class while working will help - I don't have the bloody time now Smile.

And I've noticed that about the computer too. I specifically designed a scenario in which naval power was not only possible but necessary.

Apparently, I was wrong, because the computer looked at the 50,000 starting funds and didn't say (Whee! Ships!) It said (Whee! Enough helicopters to choke a Megaladon! OOhhhh, jet fighter, tanks, and, well, everything but ships!)

Correction. The British in my scenario made a Type 45, and the French made a Cassard, and the Americans I think maybe even made a Zummwalt, but once I sank them they didn't produce any more combat vessels, just assault ships, transports, and air power like no other. It annoys me because I really, really wanted a good, high-pitch naval battle. I'm tempted to ban aircraft from the game, but then we couldn't have loaded aircraft carriers. I found it useless to construct a standard fleet (One carrier, one crusier, two destroyers, a support tanker, a couple of assault ships, and a couple of cheaper subs), since all that airpower can just gank my fleet on the cheap. It's annoying.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Aug Sun 21, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, nothing worse than playing a Naval Map only to encounter 1 Ship out of 2 HARD AIs...

I had a sizable Russian Fleet in place. My buddy (an ally) had a moderate one as the US.

We fought over who would get to kill the only ship lol. Rolling Eyes
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MisterToad



Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Posts: 29
Location: NorCal, USA

PostPosted: Nov Thu 10, 2005 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyrannical wrote:
The AI isn't really THAT good.



Maybe not. But I will say this. DS VII's AI plays a lot better than what you will often encounter in PC wargames at double the price. Pick any HPS Panzer Campaigns or Napoleonics game. For example, I once easily held off a full corps of Austrians from making a river crossing in Campaign Eckmuhl with a few battalions of Bavarians. Rolling Eyes The AI can't figure out how to make the most simple attacks, even with greatly superior forces. That's why you have to play the aggressor in every scenario. Say what you will about the DS VII AI's inability to put together a strong air force or naval task force, but at least it has enough smarts to attack with something.

No doubt I'm stating the obvious, but the Free Play mode doesn't show the AI to advantage. In a lot of PC strategy games, the AI will put up a seemingly credible effort on account of having been given a fully developed force and preset troop dispositions. For DS VII's AI to build a coherent combined arms force from scratch, and come up with an effective grand strategy as well as tactics to react to your moves, sure it's going to be a bit overmatched.

Really, I think Dai Senryaku cries out for a PC version (or an Xbox Live version in which campaigns can be saved and reloaded to resume against the opponents on your Friends List) where you can play other humans in a PBEM mode. That would really make the series, and should be simple enough to incorporate in a turn-based wargame.
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