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PERFECT setup for 2 players withouth them seeing your move
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DanielRuoss



Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 103
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL

PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SemperFi2382 wrote:
Starts to dig a deeper fighting hole to take cover from the flame war that is about to erupt. Laughing


LOL. I may have kicked over a hornet's nest there. I promise not to personally insult anyone though. We're all on the same side in the end, right? Confused
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanielRuoss wrote:
SemperFi2382 wrote:
Starts to dig a deeper fighting hole to take cover from the flame war that is about to erupt. Laughing


LOL. I may have kicked over a hornet's nest there. I promise not to personally insult anyone though. We're all on the same side in the end, right? Confused


I think it's safe to agree to disagree. Cool

If we couldn't exchange ideas, I don't think this would be a forum anymore. Razz
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JVGFanatic



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 275
Location: Portland (the westardly one)

PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehe, no flame wars at all. Some folks need their labels in order to justify their own thinking. I'm just as guilty of that. What we have is yet another ignorant liberal bashing post that is just as ignorant sounding as the conservative bashing posts I read. Yawn. I'm supposed to get upset about this?

He may be tired of certain PEOPLE who claim certain THINGS but when he makes really asinine comments like "Liberals fail to understand history." I stop reading.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVGFanatic wrote:
He may be tired of certain PEOPLE who claim certain THINGS but when he makes really asinine comments like "Liberals fail to understand history." I stop reading.


Wonders who "he" is, cause I know it's not I.
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JVGFanatic



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 275
Location: Portland (the westardly one)

PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heh, sorry for the confusion SemperFi. I'm quitting smoking today so I'm pretty gosh darn jumpy and absent minded. Oh wait, that's nothing new...I guess the only difference is that I really freakin' want a cigarette Smile

EDIT: If anyone (OP included) thinks we're derailing this thread: THINK AGAIN! Here is where you send player 2 when it's your turn...to this thread...we need more cooks in this kitchen.
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DanielRuoss



Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 103
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL

PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVGFanatic wrote:
hehe, no flame wars at all. Some folks need their labels in order to justify their own thinking. I'm just as guilty of that. What we have is yet another ignorant liberal bashing post that is just as ignorant sounding as the conservative bashing posts I read. Yawn. I'm supposed to get upset about this?

He may be tired of certain PEOPLE who claim certain THINGS but when he makes really asinine comments like "Liberals fail to understand history." I stop reading.


You seem to have that nasty liberal trait of being condescending to those who disagree with you. Anyone not as "enlightened" as you is automatically "asinine" or "ignorant".

Good luck quitting smoking. I keep meaning to get around to it myself but..... { insert usual weak excuses } Wink
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVGFanatic wrote:
EDIT: If anyone (OP included) thinks we're derailing this thread: THINK AGAIN! Here is where you send player 2 when it's your turn...to this thread...we need more cooks in this kitchen.


Lmao, indeed. Twisted Evil

As far as quitting smoking, keep at it. I finally cracked the habit, though I admit I didn't smoke quite as long. I will admit though that I feel pretty darn good about being able to kick the habit.

For the record, I smoked and did snuff/chew/dip and in reality seeing the cancers of the lip caused me to go cold turkey, which was none the less an interesting experience. Shocked
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JVGFanatic



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 275
Location: Portland (the westardly one)

PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanielRuoss wrote:
JVGFanatic wrote:
hehe, no flame wars at all. Some folks need their labels in order to justify their own thinking. I'm just as guilty of that. What we have is yet another ignorant liberal bashing post that is just as ignorant sounding as the conservative bashing posts I read. Yawn. I'm supposed to get upset about this?

He may be tired of certain PEOPLE who claim certain THINGS but when he makes really asinine comments like "Liberals fail to understand history." I stop reading.


You seem to have that nasty liberal trait of being condescending to those who disagree with you. Anyone not as "enlightened" as you is automatically "asinine" or "ignorant".

Good luck quitting smoking. I keep meaning to get around to it myself but..... { insert usual weak excuses } Wink


No, Daniel, what is asinine about your "Liberals fail to understand history." comment is that it is a very rude and broad generalization that screams ignorance. If you have read any history books or books about history at all then it is likely you've enjoyed some by folks you'd call liberal. That is an assumption, to be sure, but one you cannot afford to forget when positing arguments that are inherently debatable.

I could respond to your talking points (about the cause of the war, the prison "scandal", the effect that such news items have on our society as a whole) but alas, they are talking points and have pretty much been talked to death. You may "believe" that what we do is just, but that is a personal decision you've made for yourself. I cannot question that, nor can I argue against it...it's belief. I have my own opinions on the war which I'm more than happy to discuss, including how I've reached each one of them and the extensive reading it took to reach any sort of opinion at all. There are many issues about the current conflict on which I have absolutely no opinion at all, gasp. As to my belief...I tend to reserve "belief" for the big things.

Fortunately for your sake I won't go into all that. Not only would it bore you but, again, you're relying on a lot of belief there and thus it would only incite you. Your post pretty much parroted a lot of what I hear on right-wing, conservative talk radio. Folks like Rush want to make all liberals out to be just the sort of hateful creature you despise. Guess what, Liberal talk radio does the same disservice to conservatives though they aren't as nasty. I listen to both and they both sort of tweak me from time to time but Conservatives tend to play a meaner and less thoughtful game. That is all beside the point though.

As to Americans doing disservice to Americans by protesting...watch yourself there. Many of those protesters have family in the war and they KNOW what the soldier is like. They know that not every soldier is an ignorant torturer (interesting choice of words...), they also know that not every soldier feels particularly brave or patriotic all the time. Look at the dissent in America this way: you've got your war, all the dissenters can do is gripe about it...so go have your war and let the protesters gripe. History will be the only teller of truths.
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DanielRuoss



Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 103
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL

PostPosted: Oct Thu 13, 2005 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVGFanatic wrote:
Look at the dissent in America this way: you've got your war, all the dissenters can do is gripe about it...so go have your war and let the protesters gripe. History will be the only teller of truths.


My point about the protesters is that, while they are entitled to their opinion, the way they have gone about it is disgraceful. They say they are against the war. Well, in that case I'd like to know their plan to fight terrorism and achieve a stable, democratic Iraq. They are too busy slandering Bush, denoucing Israel with anti-semitic rhetotic, and excusing Arab terrorism to give us a reasoned, realistic alternative to the Iraq War. The lastest protest in DC is a case in point. The headliner groups are a collection of unashamed communists, anti-semites and terrorist sympathizers. If you don't believe me just go on the web and find the pictures. I'm sure there some are well meaning people in the anti-war movement. It's just they are vastly outnumbered and drowned out by the extremist majority of those protesting.
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Oct Thu 13, 2005 3:47 pm    Post subject: Enough Reply with quote

Americans have the legal right to protest. It is not only a right, it is a responsibility, to oppose what we see as corruption whenever it appears - what we have to be worried about is when people cannot protest, and cannot question their leadership. And that, my friends, is totalitarianism. Now, I vote (because that's what we do, right?) to end this b.s. and continue on the topic, which is a way to keep two players from seeing each others moves in play.

And to that I say, cool.

Now, enough of the politics, this really isn't the place for it.

- ElricJC (Liberal military historian)
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DanielRuoss



Joined: 27 Apr 2005
Posts: 103
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL

PostPosted: Oct Thu 13, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never said they don't have a right to protest. Quite the contrary I support that right. My point is about HOW they go about protesting and what their true motivations are. Just because I voted for the man in the White House right now doesn't mean I think everything the govt. does is peachy. As matter of fact there are plenty of things that I depise that originate in DC.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Oct Thu 13, 2005 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Enough Reply with quote

ElricJC wrote:
Americans have the legal right to protest. It is not only a right, it is a responsibility, to oppose what we see as corruption whenever it appears - what we have to be worried about is when people cannot protest, and cannot question their leadership. And that, my friends, is totalitarianism.


It's one thing to protest the war and protesting the people that brought this war about. Don't protest the war, because you know that won't bring the troops home any faster. However, challenging the people that sent our men and women in a war that may or may not be unjust (I'm staying neutral on this one) is far more effective. Stop focusing on the war and focus on the cause.

As a side note, I didn't vote for the current commander in chief, but I can sure as hell question why he's getting my buddies killed. Confused
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Oct Thu 13, 2005 7:19 pm    Post subject: POVs Reply with quote

Quote:
It's one thing to protest the war and protesting the people that brought this war about. Don't protest the war, because you know that won't bring the troops home any faster. However, challenging the people that sent our men and women in a war that may or may not be unjust (I'm staying neutral on this one) is far more effective. Stop focusing on the war and focus on the cause.


Ah, excellent distinction, and when I say protest the war, I mean the government's handling and execution of, but it is a good distinction to make, many people do not see that.
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JVGFanatic



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 275
Location: Portland (the westardly one)

PostPosted: Oct Fri 14, 2005 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DanielRuoss, With regards to the protest in DC: which protest? I'm sure if you go to any protest with a camera you can present any picture you want. I've been to many and of course there are extremists present, it's a protest. A link to those images and the related story would be helpful in determining who is painting what picture in the news.

I think you are listening to conservative people and reading conservative news sources about liberal politics. Of course liberals are going to look bad. I can tell you from being on the other side of that fence it is nothing like you describe. For every 10 extremists at a liberal gathering I can show you 10 extremists at a conservative gathering. For representing a small minority they sure get a lot of airtime what with members of each "side" holding them up as their opposing sides' poster children.

All most liberals want is for folks like yourself to look beyond what Washington has told us to think. What you have said so far regarding the issue is very nearly exactly what DC has told us to think. I'm not saying that you are not doing your research but really, good research does not bear out most of what Bush says. Honestly what I'd like to do is for you and I to sit down in a room, each of us with our research tools and go over these things point by point. Not likely to happen any time soon Smile

Quote:
They are too busy slandering Bush, denoucing Israel with anti-semitic rhetotic, and excusing Arab terrorism to give us a reasoned, realistic alternative to the Iraq War.


I'd like to call this out because it is exactly the kind of rhetoric you describe. Liberals too busy slandering Bush? Which liberals? Slander? Really?! Where? I suppose the conservatives were all busy doing their jobs when the Clinton/Lewinsky thing went down, that's why they hired a special prosecutor to look into his affairs...Looking for the chink in the president's armor is what some folks do. I am thankful for that as long as they don't spend too much of my tax money going after trivial things.

Speaking of going after trivial things: since we can't have a proper discussion about these issues up here (maybe we can, I hesitate to really get down with some of these things though cause it ain't the place) perhaps ElricJC is right, we should just get back to the games.

I dare say though that for a political discussion on a gaming message board we are all behaving ourselves quite nicely.

Edit: Added the word gaming to the last line as that was the intended thought.


Last edited by JVGFanatic on Oct Fri 14, 2005 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Oct Fri 14, 2005 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JVGFanatic wrote:
I dare say though that for a political discussion on a message board we are all behaving ourselves quite nicely.


Indeed. Cool
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