Kemco Games

Guest · Posted: Jul Mon 11, 2005 4:12 pm Post subject:

Because sometimes your aircover is rearming,refueling,or repairing. Sometimes your fighters can't always be where you need them and you have to use other assets. Now I don't agree that the a-10 is equal to the Spooky. I believe it to be superior to the Spooky, because of its flexibility. The theory that an A-10 is equal to a Spooky I believe is in error. The A-10's ability to engage both air and ground targets makes it a superior unit to the Spooky which can only engage ground targets. As for range and speed the Spooky is superior granted but it is still limited in its overall usefulness. The A-10 does need a KC135 to be truly effective but all your air assets can benefit from having one making not only the A-10 more effective but also your Raptors and F15's. Now you point out that they both have good and bad points but the A-10's balance out to the good versus the Spooky, and I will take 2 A-10's at $3000 as compared to 1 Spooky. If you feel that is stupid fine.

SemperFi2382 · Posted: Jul Mon 11, 2005 8:37 pm Post subject:

See, maybe it's just me because I almost never have a gap in my air cover. I tend to have a relay type setup where a group is on station (at the front), enroute to the patrol zone and a group that's refueling and rearming. Mixed in with ample fighter support, I have bombers on task, A-10s hunting armor and capture capable units and an AC-130 picking off longer ranged targets such as AA, Supply and Artillery. Assuming I have ample funds and my relays are in short hops.

On longer hops and with less income, the AC-130s take priority over the A-10s because they are longer legged in ammo and fuel. Not to mention faster. They can usually go without the KC-135s and can usually be escorted by fighters which the AC-130 doesn't have to worry about keeping up, cause they are faster than the A-10s.

On heavy front line fighting, the kinda where artillery can be close enogh to the airfields that they could shell them, I skip the AC-130s and pile up the A-10s. Mostly because it's a short hop and second because more firepower in can be concentrated with minimal relays.

However, due to the fact that 2 isn't always better than 1 when you're at max unit limits (which is when the bulk of airpower is purchased), I don't always want 2 A-10s, but I have the funds for the AC-130 for my typical use of them. Sure, you're not attacking 2 units per turn, but on many missions where I have a large contingent of ground forces, I want less units allocated in the air sucking up resupply, time between rearming and eating up my max unit allowance.

If you look at my saved unit list (which 90% are the original units I've saved), I have 2 AC-130s, and 4 A-10s. Cost wise the 4 are equal to the 2, I can attack 4 units per turn and engage air units should I ever feel the need. Generally, to support them on long missions, I need 1 KC-135, ample time to react to a shift in the battle and enough time to fly them from the base to the patrol zone. However, I can task 2 AC-130s, save the 2 unit slots for something else, put them into battle quickly and not need to pull them back so often.

The way I see it, they ARE equal for the sole fact that in various tactical and strategic reasons one excels where the other does not. Ranks aside (both sets are S ranked when employed by me 70% of the time), this is how I see them breaking down. While not the full list, I can name 1 for 1 an advantage and disadvantage of each unit.

Tactical = A-10
- Hard hitting
- Inexpensive
- AtG and AtA

Strategic = AC-130
- Long legged
- Fast
- Large ammo load
_________________

"The Object is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his." - General Patton

SemperFi2382 · Posted: Jul Mon 11, 2005 9:44 pm Post subject:

Okay, here's the lowdown on the basic stats of the A-10 vs the AC-130. (Rank E)

A-10
Price: 1500
Subunits: 10
Endurance: 4
Fuel: 90
Standard Move: 8 (9 on Pack 3)
Fast Move: 12 (13 on Pack 3)
Stealth: 0

AC-130
Price: 3000
Subunits: 2
Endurance: 10
Fuel: 180
Standard Move: 9
Fast Move: 11
Stealth: 0

Now, onto the weapons.

A-10
Weapon-Firepower-Air/Helos/Veh/Inf/Ship/Sub

AGM-65---5---0/0/77/47/51/0
Guided----4---0/0/93/93/61/0
1000 lbs--4---0/0/73/83/56/0
AIM-9-----2---70/75/0/0/0/0
30mm-----3---28/54/63/58/0/0

AC-130
Weapon-Firepower-Air/Helos/Veh/Inf/Ship/Sub

105mm---3---0/0/61/56/36/25
40/25mm-2---0/0/52/68/28/17

Last, but not least, the ammo comparisons.

A-10
Pack 1 = 6 AtG and 1 AtA
Pack 2 = 6 AtG and 1 AtA
Pack 3 = 8 AtG and 1 AtA

AC-130
Pack 1 = 11 AtG and 0 AtA

Now, what do we see? Higher hit rates with the A-10, a variety in packs and some movement variations. However, no increase in fuel capacity and no ability to attack Submarines. The AC-130? No AtA capabilities, CAN attack Submarines, longer legs, more attacks per deployment. Double the cost, but double the fuel, nearly double the ammo for AtG and save for one pack, can move faster.

Where does this put us? *points back to the equal footing posts* Exactly my point, they are on equal ground.

Now, let's talk about targets for a moment. What do you see about these units? They're targets are going to be different. The A-10 is suited for short range armor chewing attacks solo. The AC-130 is suited for softer skinned units at longer ranges. Okay then, sure you "could" use the A-10 for the same role. *BUT* add in a $2750 KC-135. Take the AC-130 and add in cheap fighter escorts (2 F/A-18s) and you come out to $2700.

Like I said. Equal. Rolling Eyes

_________________

"The Object is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his." - General Patton

JVGFanatic · Posted: Jul Mon 11, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject:

lmao, freaking awesome post, post of the year. yay! w00t. Sorry about my 'tude ealier, I was having my period.

Cheers man, LMAO!

SemperFi2382 · Posted: Jul Tue 12, 2005 10:35 am Post subject:

DeviousPENGUIN · Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 54 Location: Pittsburgh PA

You and I have differing views as to force organization apparently. When I play I max out my ground forces say about 35-40 units with around 5 attack choppers and the rest is infantry transport chopper(s) and fighters and bombers. It sounds to me like you have a much higher proportion of your units as airpower. That being said the flexibility provided by the A10 is more important to me in my force mix than it is to you in yours. So to say that they are equal in your opinion and in your system is correct but to me with my force requirements the A10 is the superior choice. I believe how we choose our forces is the determinate of relative values of units and not their stats alone. I respect that you feel they are equal but don't presume that I will or need to see it your way.
_________________
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

SemperFi2382 · Posted: Jul Tue 12, 2005 9:16 pm Post subject:

Guest · Posted: Jul Wed 13, 2005 5:42 am Post subject:

I suppose I am the "someone" you refer to? I believe in reviewing the posts you have been the one to "bring things to bear". I simply refused to tell you I share your opinion on weather or not the A-10 is equal to the Spooky, which I will say once again, TO ME (caps for emphasis) the A-10 is superior. We disagree. I'll be Monty.

SemperFi2382 · Posted: Jul Wed 13, 2005 7:53 am Post subject:

DeviousPENGUIN · Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 54 Location: Pittsburgh PA

My mistake.
_________________
Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war.

tyrannical · Joined: 04 Mar 2005 Posts: 51

The Spooky (unless I am wrong) has to fly at low altitude consuming double fuel to attack. Low altitude also makes it vulnerable to more Anti-air units, including choppers that carry 1 or 2 AA rockets.

The A-10's 3 gatling shots can be used both AG and AA. The gatlings are one of the very few damage 3 against air units. A-10's can decimate choppers with the gatlings, and can do so by flying at medium over a low chopper. Chopper gets no AA counter attack.

A high rank A-10's gatlings are decent against planes also. AA fighters are usually much lower level due to lack of level gaining targets for them to attack. AA fighters with power 2 AA missiles sometimes have problems damaging endurance 4 A-10s.

It is not unusall once an A10 reaches a combat area, to attack 9 turns in a row exhausting it's ammo. Then it's time to head back home before fuel gets too low. Mid game when the A-10s have to fly far to get to the enemy HQ, I'll have one tanker plane 20 or 30 hexes away to refuel the A10s.

Depending on the map, when I play US I am heavy on A-10s, apaches and ATACMS. I usually don't build tanks.
_________________
Red army much agressor!!!! They make big war on you. You blue army commander. You stop red army. You make all bases belong to you! Go Blue Army, Go for great justice!!!

SemperFi2382 · Posted: Jul Sat 16, 2005 3:32 pm Post subject:

I hardly ever pull back my aircraft until they are totally bingo (empty) on ammo and/or fuel. Unless of course it's near death, but that goes without saying.
_________________

"The Object is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his." - General Patton

Maul · Joined: 11 Jul 2005 Posts: 16

So I've been wasting my day at work pouring over USA units from jvgfanatic's faq. After reading this topic I went out and play tested the spookyand the A-10. I was a bit let down with the spooky's performance. Just a bit though.

Anyway, to the point. Why bother with the spooky if you can buy the B1 Lancer? Going on the faq the lancer carries a huge payload (18 ) of 2000 pound bombs, a big fuel tank, better endurance, and an awesome range. All that for $500 more than the spooky.

SemperFi2382 · Posted: Jul Mon 18, 2005 1:35 pm Post subject:

DanielRuoss · Joined: 27 Apr 2005 Posts: 103 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL

I've been watching this thread for some time and it's been entertaining to say the least! I finally have to weigh in though. I'm heavy on air power (I usually have way more air units than ground at the end of a scenario) and I find the A-10 more useful than the AC-130. Especially in the beginning when funds are limited. 2 A-10's for 3000 versus 1 AC-130 means I can attack 2 targets instead of one. For me thats invaluble as I usually spend the beginning of any scenario building up funds and consolidating territory. Sure you need to reload sooner with an A-10 but to me it's a small trade-off.