Kemco Games

ROBERT · Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 122

In the unit detail screen, to the left of the "Det.Range" sign is another sign that displays "Elev." and two arrows (up and down) with two numbers next to each one...What's this info about?

I'm afraid the manual doesn't say a thing about the info display we are refering to; it does say on page 45 about the generic unit detail screen though, and a even a picture of the very display were disscusing about is pasted (of M1A2 Abrams), but without explaining it at all.

At first I interpretated those figures (which not vary when switching betwen altitudes) as a quick reference to the unit's detection/attack capabilities, as they are next to and even connected by a line to the detection range display.

So for example, the USA B-2 Spirit displays (up arrow)2 (down arrow)4, so one could interpret that as: can detect enemies flying up to 2 (med air) and swiming down at 4 (deep sea?), but that is not quite correct because from switching altitudes you would see this unit can detect enemies at hi air, and can not detect nor attack deep sea units.

Considering attack ranges are actually the weapons' ranges (with their altitude firing capabilities), which have their own info screen so as the detection ranges have, I concluded that those figures I'm asking about reffer to something else, and it is not likely that they are to be interpetated in accordance with the weapons' ranges info or another, because from the weapon range pannel only I can obtain that info (attack ranges with altittudes) quite well.

I might be missing something, but I still don't get it right, considering the above

JVGFanatic · Posted: Jun Mon 06, 2005 8:40 am Post subject:

I'm working on memory because I didn't haven't had time to even boot my XBox lately. Also, my faq is currently lacking in this area (I think) so I'll update it as well.

Think of those numbers not as actual altitudes and instead as how many levels above and how many levels below the current altitude. In other words, if the plane is flying too high then it cannot detect subs running deep.

------ High
------ Mid
------ Low
------ Ground
------ Surf
------ Deep

In your example, a DOWN of FOUR would yield a detection range ending (vertically) at the X (the plane being at the O) because Surf is FOUR down from the plane Smile

---O-- High
------ Mid
------ Low
------ Ground
---X-- Surf
------ Deep

ROBERT · Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 122

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but from your explanation I interpret that the B-2 Spirit's down arrow 4 display means that this unit can detect deep sea units if flying at mid air?

As far as I know, the B-2 Spirit is unable at any altitude to detect or attack deep sea units.

JVGFanatic · Posted: Jun Mon 06, 2005 9:31 pm Post subject:

If it's down arrow range is 4 I'd say yes.

ROBERT · Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 122

I don't think that is so...because you must consider what I said, I mean, the B-2 Spirit is unable at any altitude to detect or attack deep sea units.

JVGFanatic · Posted: Jun Tue 07, 2005 4:01 pm Post subject:

okay, I didn't and don't have the game in front of me but I went to my unit list faq and got ALL the stats. NOW, read the stats:

ROBERT · Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 122

So my question remain still....what is that info about?

Adoug · Posted: Jun Wed 08, 2005 9:57 am Post subject:

I just checked it out, I from what I can tell and remember (it has been a bit since I played/tested it) JVG is correct. It is based on the units current elevation. So, if it says 2 (up arrow) 1 (down arrow) the unit should be able to scan/detect 2 elevations up or 1 down from current elevation. I could be wrong, but I think that is correct. I hope this helps. Twisted Evil

_________________
"The path to Knighthood is paved with strength and nobility, not LSD and sideburns." Black Knight from Family Guy.

ROBERT · Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 122

I know that's the most logic explanation...at first I thought that was it as well...but it becomes ilogic (or incongruent) when it comes, for example, to the B-2 Spirit, because this unit displays down arrow 4 (so acording to that explanation this unit can detect deep sea units if flying at mid air) but it can not detect nor attack deep sea units at any alttitude.

So that number must refer to something else...I believe

JVGFanatic · Posted: Jun Wed 08, 2005 10:17 am Post subject:

The unit has NO detection range for DEEP sea units. It's ZERO. So yes, you are correct. It will never detect deep sea units. HOWEVER it will detect SURF units out to 2 hexes up to 4 elevations above SURF.

That is really a bad example (but is symptomatic of the Spirit's 4 hex vertical detection range) because 4 elevations above SURF is the upper limit of flight. If the spirit went one higher than HIGH then it would lose all SURF detection ability.

ROBERT · Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 122

I'm sorry if my question is bothering you man..is just that I love this game and want to know everything about it, and this forum is everything I got since the insctruction manual lacks of some important info..so I hope you take note to update your FAQ, which also has been a real help as well.

Regarding your comments.....the point here is not if the B-s Spirit can or can not detect deep sea units..we know it can't...the point is.... what is that info about?..I mean...what does down arrow 4 means if the unit can not detect deep sea units?

JVGFanatic · Posted: Jun Wed 08, 2005 10:44 am Post subject:

it means that all of it's horizontal detection ranges COUNT for as many vertical UP and DOWN levels as those stats convey.

Meaning if a unit has UP and DOWN of ZERO then it can only detect units that are on its level. How far out it can detect those units is determined by the detection range for each level Smile

no bother. I'm hoping we reach a clear description here so that what I put in the FAQ is also clear.

ROBERT · Joined: 13 May 2005 Posts: 122

So what you are saying is that the detection range represented by those numbers (down arrow 4) must be ALWAYS figured from hi air to lower elevations?

And that this principle applies to each one of the other units? (considering differences between air, ground and sea units)

The B-2 Spirit is just one example of the incongruence...I don't have my xbox right now..but I remember from the tests I made..other examples..not only about air units..but ground as well...

JVGFanatic · Posted: Jun Wed 08, 2005 10:54 am Post subject:

The DOWN and UP ranges are relative to the unit's current position.

a DOWN value of 2 when the unit is at HIGH would include MID and LOW.

a DOWN value of 2 when the unit is at MID would include LOW and GROUND

a DOWN value of 2 when the unit is at LOW would include GROUND and SURF

a DOWN value of 2 when the unit is at GROUND would include SURF and DEEP

HOWEVER if the DEEP detection range for that unit is 0 then it doesn't have the hardware to detect DEEP units and won't detect them no matter how low it flies.

and so on.

I really don't see the incongruency. Do think the stats are incorrect for the unit's real-world capabilities? Each unit has it's own vertical and horizontal detection capabilities that are based upon the hardware that the unit typically carries. Just cause a Spirit is flying at Low altitude doesn't mean it has the kinds of radar/sonar that are needed to detect deep units.

JVGFanatic · Posted: Jun Wed 08, 2005 11:07 am Post subject:

Another important point: the vertical detection range cannot be used alone. It means nothing by itself. If all of the Horizontal detection ranges (Deep, Surf, Mid, Low, etc...) are also zero the unit will never see another unit. Period.

Let's look at a silly example:

Detection Ranges:

UP: 2
GRND: 0
LOW: 4
MID: 0

This unit, when standing at GRND cannot see any units on it's own level but it can see helicopters and planes flying at LOW altitude out to 4 hexes away. It is blind though once those planes go to MID altitude even if they share the same hex as our unfortunate unit since our unit's MID detection range is ZERO.

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Here's another graphic example: