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The game seems to cheatingly make up pieces during battle.
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Blowed up REAL good!
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PostPosted: Jul Fri 08, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: The game seems to cheatingly make up pieces during battle. Reply with quote

I'm sure it is my imagination, but I've done dozens of tests.....and it looks real to me.

I noticed that EVERY single turn, the enemy was putting one of those CRV big eye (view range=5) things in my face. I'd destroy it, and next turn they had another. I'd destroy it, and next turn they'd have another. Over and over and over. Repeat till ill/annoyed...or as in my case, highly suspicious.

I thought to myself, "now if I was by the enemy base, this would be possible.....but I'm out in the middle of no place, so what are the odds that the enemy is making a third of cross country exploration vehicles CRVs?"......so I started testing.
I did multiple big-eye planes and during each turn I'd fly off carelessly in every direction, reload, and do it again.....just to see what was really out there.....in every direction, in every location.
Results?
If I left the planes in place during the enemy turn, it didn't cheat.
BUT.....if I reloaded, didn't use the planes and then ended the turn.....the enemy stuck CRVs in my face that I proved previously did not exist!

I'm gotten addicted now to exploring, reloading, and waiting to see what shows up, ....and repeatedly, I've seen units (not just CRVs, but mostly) that were NOT present before the enemy turn. Yes, I always check the unit travel ability to make sure it couldn't possibly have made it there fairly.

So......I'm just wondering if anyone else has done such tests...and what experience have you had?
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JVGFanatic



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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Location: Portland (the westardly one)

PostPosted: Jul Sat 09, 2005 12:20 am    Post subject: It's not cheating... Reply with quote

Just for kicks, set the computer controlled color to player (I believe it is Start button during the computer's turn, just keep mashing it, you have to catch it between thoughts).

Anyway, press the button you'd normally use to bring up the menu for your End Turn. I believe there is a "Players" command. You can switch the comptuer controlled player to a human and examine its forces.

I believe everything should be explained there. I've done this many times to see if AI is getting a boost on production and I've never noticed units appearing out of nowhere or traversing large distances quickly, but granted I've not looked for that.

Note that you can set the player back to AI and catch it again next turn to see its progress. If, after doing this, you still see the behavior you describe then please let us know.

NOTE: Your tests do sound thorough, I will have to boot the game. What map/settings are you playing for these tests (or is this happening on multiple maps)?


Last edited by JVGFanatic on Jul Sat 09, 2005 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 775
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Jul Sat 09, 2005 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odd, I've ran this test on all 3 AI levels and have not once seen the AI cheat, ever.

I don't know what to say here. lol Laughing
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Blowed up REAL good
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PostPosted: Jul Wed 13, 2005 9:24 pm    Post subject: I'm going to assume I was just having a strange day..... Reply with quote

I wouldn't have made the original post if it didn't seem real at the time.....but I haven't seen it again since.

Maybe I was hallucinating.
Maybe I was dreaming.
Maybe I was just so frustrated I needed an excuse?

I have no idea.
I've tried again and again to duplicate the etc, and not once has it happened.
I don't recall what map I was on originally.....so maybe the devs/programmers just put it in on one map (with specific triggers) for giggles.

Sorry to have no details/proof.
...but ...still happily playing and cussing alot(other cheating topic). Smile
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 775
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Jul Thu 14, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: I'm going to assume I was just having a strange day..... Reply with quote

Blowed up REAL good wrote:
I wouldn't have made the original post if it didn't seem real at the time.....but I haven't seen it again since.

Maybe I was hallucinating.
Maybe I was dreaming.
Maybe I was just so frustrated I needed an excuse?

I have no idea.
I've tried again and again to duplicate the etc, and not once has it happened.
I don't recall what map I was on originally.....so maybe the devs/programmers just put it in on one map (with specific triggers) for giggles.

Sorry to have no details/proof.
...but ...still happily playing and cussing alot(other cheating topic). Smile


I'm wondering if you get the same thing I do at times. I "know" the AI isn't cheating because I've done the tests. However, there are times where what I can "see" isn't meaning the enemy is not there. I've not detected a unit in a space that it seems that I can see into, but I'd fly past and a unit would be there.

I'm currently doing a test to see about detection, evasion and ECM. So far, it looks like you're seeing some of the results that I've gotten. The thing is, I've got control of both sides, so I KNOW where the unit is, but a few times the unit is MIA for the other player that should "see" it. Stay tuned for that thread that should be posted later tonight.
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tyrannical



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Jul Sat 16, 2005 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have noticed that enemy units don't always move in predictable paths.
For example, you are done moving all your units and save the game. Computer moves, and moves a unit into your range of site. Reload the game, the computer moves that unit someplace else.

There is some degree of randomisation to how the enemy moves. Unlike Advanced Wars.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Jul Sat 16, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyrannical wrote:
I have noticed that enemy units don't always move in predictable paths.
For example, you are done moving all your units and save the game. Computer moves, and moves a unit into your range of site. Reload the game, the computer moves that unit someplace else.

There is some degree of randomisation to how the enemy moves. Unlike Advanced Wars.


Advance Wars has a logic system that is predictable because they react to the pieces, not the grand scheme of things. Move an APC to some random spot and they go after it even if it's not the best target.

In DVII, they don't always go for the weakest unit.
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tyrannical



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Jul Sat 16, 2005 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you end your turn and let the computer move, it doesn't always make the same move if you reload. This is before comabt while I am outside their detection range.
I'm just saying there is some degree of randomisation to the computers strategy.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Jul Sat 16, 2005 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tyrannical wrote:
If you end your turn and let the computer move, it doesn't always make the same move if you reload. This is before comabt while I am outside their detection range.
I'm just saying there is some degree of randomisation to the computers strategy.


Oh, I agree totally. It's almost too random, like they took advance wars and went the extreme opposite way. Like the naval heavy maps, I've seen the AI build 1 or 2 ships only to have them die in a Russian Anti-Ship Missile storm... Laughing

But that's a whole different issue I think.
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PostPosted: Jul Sat 16, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I noticed some cheating in one of the missions, I think it was 15. There was an enemy infantry unit placed in an area that was surrounded by water on one side, with no shallows, and mountains on the other. The enemy had NO airports, so it couldn't have been dropped.

This really bugged me because I suspected they would put a unit there since they always put units near your cities to keep you on your toes, but since I knew the situation, I knew a unit shouldn't be there, so I didn't bother defending it.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Jul Sat 16, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
I noticed some cheating in one of the missions, I think it was 15. There was an enemy infantry unit placed in an area that was surrounded by water on one side, with no shallows, and mountains on the other. The enemy had NO airports, so it couldn't have been dropped.

This really bugged me because I suspected they would put a unit there since they always put units near your cities to keep you on your toes, but since I knew the situation, I knew a unit shouldn't be there, so I didn't bother defending it.


Hmm, but on the missions, the units are pre-placed. So, unless it walked there, I'd figure he was waiting there. Though I'm not sure of the missions ever have units "spawn" for them, which is another theory for the campaign at least.
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Arpeegy
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PostPosted: Jul Fri 22, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I play the game a lot with my three buddies (every fourth weekend)and we have noticed that a unit's stealth ability can be key to noticing it. The U.S. vehicles with stealth can sometimes infiltrate an area without even being noticed by the enemy units until an attack occurs (even if the piece is within the enemy's "sight" range).

Just because a vehicle is listed as being able to "see" 5 hexes in a direction does not mean it will see every piece in that area. The unit's stealth abilities can hide it from observation.

Once we even noticed a "trace/ghost" element. I.E. The stealth unit moved through an area but did not stay at the hex the enemy located it in. The enemy vehicle saw it and posted it but when the other side went to investigate the piece was no longer in that area. It was actually about 8 to 10 hexes away.

I have not paid much attention to other armies and their "stealth" ratings so I do not know if this applies. I generally play for the U.S. because I am a techno junky and the U.S. has the best technology related pieces. Pricey, but HIGHLY effective. I am happy to pay 6000 for a Stealth Bomber when the enemy can move right by it without ever noticing it.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Jul Fri 22, 2005 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arpeegy wrote:
Well, I play the game a lot with my three buddies (every fourth weekend)and we have noticed that a unit's stealth ability can be key to noticing it. The U.S. vehicles with stealth can sometimes infiltrate an area without even being noticed by the enemy units until an attack occurs (even if the piece is within the enemy's "sight" range).

Just because a vehicle is listed as being able to "see" 5 hexes in a direction does not mean it will see every piece in that area. The unit's stealth abilities can hide it from observation.

Once we even noticed a "trace/ghost" element. I.E. The stealth unit moved through an area but did not stay at the hex the enemy located it in. The enemy vehicle saw it and posted it but when the other side went to investigate the piece was no longer in that area. It was actually about 8 to 10 hexes away.

I have not paid much attention to other armies and their "stealth" ratings so I do not know if this applies. I generally play for the U.S. because I am a techno junky and the U.S. has the best technology related pieces. Pricey, but HIGHLY effective. I am happy to pay 6000 for a Stealth Bomber when the enemy can move right by it without ever noticing it.


Yeah, I've scared the begeezus outta my friend a few times with B-2s coming outta nowhere. Though the B-1Bs can do it too, just not as often.
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Arpeegy
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PostPosted: Jul Sat 23, 2005 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm at work right now so I cannot remember the name of the 5000 credit stealth fighter (attack) that the U.S has as well. If you can manage to purchase 4 of these you will control both the ground and air since each carries 3 rounds of ground and air missiles. If my mind serves me well the air missiles have a range of 3 (maybe 4 at its best altitude) and the ground pounders go an amazing 18 hexes. This is near impossible to fight since the enemy has such a hard time locating the aircraft.

Even if the enemy finds the craft they are near impossible to hit. I use them to cover my Stealth Bombers and help to soften the target before my tanks and infantry arrive.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Jul Sat 23, 2005 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arpeegy wrote:
I'm at work right now so I cannot remember the name of the 5000 credit stealth fighter (attack) that the U.S has as well. If you can manage to purchase 4 of these you will control both the ground and air since each carries 3 rounds of ground and air missiles. If my mind serves me well the air missiles have a range of 3 (maybe 4 at its best altitude) and the ground pounders go an amazing 18 hexes. This is near impossible to fight since the enemy has such a hard time locating the aircraft.

Even if the enemy finds the craft they are near impossible to hit. I use them to cover my Stealth Bombers and help to soften the target before my tanks and infantry arrive.


I don't think you're referring to the F/B-22 as I don't think they have any AtA abilities, but you might be referring to the F/A-22 Raptors, which have excellent range and are by far one of the most lethal air units. Cool

When I can afford them, they are usually a unit that I have at least 2 of cruising with my bombers and putting the enemy in a world of hurt. Twisted Evil
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