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ElricJC
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 Posted: Aug Sat 20, 2005 7:22 pm Post subject: Holy Hellis!
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This is a lead off from the computer difficulty thread. One thing I noticed about the computer on "hard" is its insane love of helicopters, assault, trans, and attack. Then I started to think "What if I developed a real hard on for the attack heli?" and I came up with an idea.
Screw land power! Bah, who needs it!... when you have a force of 14 Apaches, 2 Comanches, 5 Black Hawks, and an Osprey loaded with Spec Forces, and just because I could, I also produced 4 Harriers with Guided bombs, 2 A-10s, and followed up with 4 supply tankers, and way the heck behind I had 2 M3s, 2 M2s, 2 LAV-ATs, and 2 Abrams. At the same time I had a distracting force of 2 Apaches, 2 Black Hawks, 2 M3s, and 1 Abrams tank holding ground against another force. I fought the Israelis, then the Russians, and then the Chinese. Eventually I had the cash to toss out a couple of F-22s and an FB-22, along with two B-1s, and I ganked all comers mightily. I didn't lose a single heli squad of any kind, it was insane! I know a standard Army tactic is to lead a ground assault with a heli attack, but before when I tried this I had a 2:1 ratio of ground units to helis. Maybe this needs to be reversed, or even made 3:1 helis.
Anyone else ever tried something like this, and with different nations?
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SemperFi2382
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA
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Posted: Aug Sun 21, 2005 12:53 pm Post subject:
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I've done this with the Russkies.
Take lot's of Hinds, Black Sharks, Alligators and Halos.
Add in some Strike Flankers, Super Flankers and a pair of Backfires.
Mix in some various armor elements and let it simmer.
Boom!
Sprinkle in some Special Forces, Transports and Tankers.
Enjoy. 
_________________
"The Object is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his." - General Patton
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irashunal
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Posted: Aug Sun 21, 2005 8:22 pm Post subject: Sooo....
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So basically what you're saying is that there's no real point in producing land units at all except to help shoot down the enemy heli and stomp the assault heli that land in your territory?
Darn! I had just used to my v-wing formation of tanks with recon as eight ball and SPH trio as back bar... if that's not going to work then.... LOL.
That formation is extremely tedious to move but it acts like a bulldozer whenever it does encounter something on the ground.
And i love it like a fat kid loves cake.
So perhaps the same type of formation could be put into the air - whether by heli mass or by jet grouping...?
Say: a v wing of Hind with a Mainstay as 8 ball and a full set of Halo as the backbar?
Or: Interceptor v wing with Mainstay or Mig25R 8 ball and Backfire backbar team?
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SemperFi2382
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA
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Posted: Aug Sun 21, 2005 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Sooo....
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| irashunal wrote: |
So perhaps the same type of formation could be put into the air - whether by heli mass or by jet grouping...?
Say: a v wing of Hind with a Mainstay as 8 ball and a full set of Halo as the backbar?
Or: Interceptor v wing with Mainstay or Mig25R 8 ball and Backfire backbar team? |
Yeah, those are some good formations to employ. I use roughly the same setup. Super Flankers screening, followed by Backfires and mopped up with Attack helos or Transports.
_________________
"The Object is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his." - General Patton
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ElricJC
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Posted: Aug Mon 22, 2005 7:22 am Post subject: Formations
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When I composed my heli-attack force, I moved them in a staggered grid formation to prevent enemy flanking, sort of like this...
H H H H H H H
H H H H H H
H H H H H H H
With my scouts on the edes and middle of the front line, and then behind this primary skirmish line I had Black Hawks coming behind, and then I had harrier raider squadrons flying overhead with A-10s in tow to pound hardened targets (like Merkavas, although frankly the Apaches were doing a better job on the tanks than the Harriers).
When units would become damaged I could easily pull a couple back to repair, and I'd keep them out there until they were depleted of all ordinance. Usually I would keep 75% of my air group airborne while the rest rested and repaired. Once the enemy ground units were pushed back I would move up my own small ground force to hold captured terrain. I didn't even have to produce any AA fighters for the first stage of my battle, because when the Israeli's would put up a Baz Eagle, my Harriers had enough experience, as did my A-10s, and I could swarm them with minimal casualties to my side. It wasn't until the Russians that I needed some more reliable air to air cover. Enter the Raptor  .
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SemperFi2382
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA
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Posted: Aug Mon 22, 2005 8:09 am Post subject:
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Interesting, my only change to that is I'd add in an AWACS so that you could better guide in your screening force of fighters.
_________________
"The Object is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his." - General Patton
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ROBERT
Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 122
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Posted: Aug Mon 22, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Holy Hellis!
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| ElricJC wrote: |
| One thing I noticed about the computer on "hard" is its insane love of helicopters, assault, trans, and attack. Then I started to think "What if I developed a real hard on for the attack heli?" and I came up with an idea. |
What I did recently is this:
With the editor I loaded "Survival Basin" map and made some modifications: a) I erased red army and moved blue (me) and green capitals far away from each other but each one at the same distance from the central factory, so I made it a two players map. b) I surrounded both capitals with production incapable terrain so there will be no land units. c) I made seven production capable airports for each side. d) Set the funds to the max and dificulty to high, e) I prepared myself to enjoy air carnage.
I also made a variant of the above with "Vermillion Keys" map, just in case you´re feeling like engaging over the sea.
The point is, by turn 3, while I had about 10 raptors and other diferent toys in the air the AI was just producing assault helos¡¡¡¡...it was until turn 5 or 6 that the computer came up with the first fighter, but by that time my force was unbeatable, because all those helis couldn´t even detect my fighters and AI´s planes were just unable to face my force, so my wish for a decent and balanced air carnage went to the toilet because of the way the game is coded.
Of course you can walk around ths issue just by "waiting" to the AI to produce it´s helo wage and then both start at the same time to produce fighters and interceptors. By waiting I mean not producing planes until the AI starts to, but you should start anyway, becasue the AI won´t stop producing choppers until you come up with the first aerial threat.
I believe this way of AI behavior answers to the need of resource gathering, I mean, it seems that the AI (hard setting) is programmed to first concentrate on taking facilities and then on facing the threats, that would be an explanation for that conduct.
Though I haven´t tried taking off all facilities to see what happens, I´ll try that and let you guys know what happened, even though it would either take out much of the challenge.
The point is: I like this game a lot, but in my particular case I have nobody to play the game with, so the AI has been my only choice, and after experiments as the one just mentioned I just get a little bit dissapointed with it, although I know the game is still a great tool for Human vs Human engagements, maybe some day.
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ElricJC
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Posted: Aug Mon 22, 2005 4:38 pm Post subject: AWACS
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| Quote: |
Interesting, my only change to that is I'd add in an AWACS so that you could better guide in your screening force of fighters.
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Frankly I rarely use AWACS craft unless there is a lot of open territory to guard, since AWACS craft usually have a big, blinking neon sign that says "KILL ME" above them (computer loves to spank them first, which is smart since recon and scout units are usually the first thing I destroy given the chance). I never needed the AWACS in this case, or in a recent scenario (Seek the Oases - as the Israelis), since the computer doesn't seem to produce jets until you start making a fuss with them yourself. I never constructed a single combat jet in this latest scenario (just a recon Jet, and it has no weapons), and the computer didn't seem to mind. I wish I had some human opoonents  .
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SemperFi2382
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA
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Posted: Aug Mon 22, 2005 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: AWACS
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| ElricJC wrote: |
| Quote: |
Interesting, my only change to that is I'd add in an AWACS so that you could better guide in your screening force of fighters.
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Frankly I rarely use AWACS craft unless there is a lot of open territory to guard, since AWACS craft usually have a big, blinking neon sign that says "KILL ME" above them (computer loves to spank them first, which is smart since recon and scout units are usually the first thing I destroy given the chance). I never needed the AWACS in this case, or in a recent scenario (Seek the Oases - as the Israelis), since the computer doesn't seem to produce jets until you start making a fuss with them yourself. I never constructed a single combat jet in this latest scenario (just a recon Jet, and it has no weapons), and the computer didn't seem to mind. I wish I had some human opoonents .
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Yeah, an AWACS isn't always worth the cost to deploy and maintain, but on occasion it has saved the hide of my invasion forces.
As for having a human opponent, I think I'm lucky to have a friend that I can play with and against. Though, I still wish there was an XBL function because my friend is only so good after awhile. 
_________________
"The Object is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his." - General Patton
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irashunal
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Posted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 7:20 pm Post subject: air recon
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It seems like the interceptors do better to illuminate the area than recon jets do - at least at high altitude. Plus they can evade and deal out the pain a heckuvalot better than your standard eye in the sky.
As far as low level flight goes i'd just as soon use a heli like a Japanese Cobra WT or an America Kiowa heli for my recon and force support... They're faster and better equipped to handle sudden threats than your ground recon units ever could be...
Of course the regular ground recon is there if you're on a tight budget.
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SemperFi2382
Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA
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Posted: Aug Tue 23, 2005 7:38 pm Post subject: Re: air recon
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| irashunal wrote: |
It seems like the interceptors do better to illuminate the area than recon jets do - at least at high altitude. Plus they can evade and deal out the pain a heckuvalot better than your standard eye in the sky.
As far as low level flight goes i'd just as soon use a heli like a Japanese Cobra WT or an America Kiowa heli for my recon and force support... They're faster and better equipped to handle sudden threats than your ground recon units ever could be...
Of course the regular ground recon is there if you're on a tight budget. |
Keep in mind that the Interceptors seem to have good radar detection capabilities too. Thus why I tend to lead any serious air assault with a decent force of interceptors screening my advance.
_________________
"The Object is not to die for your country, but to make the other poor bastard die for his." - General Patton
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