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Japan Strategies Anyone?
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Guest121
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PostPosted: Oct Sun 09, 2005 11:34 am    Post subject: Japan Strategies Anyone? Reply with quote

Hi, I'm kind of new to this game and I've tried all the countries, to me Japan seems to be in my favorite category, but I'm not really sure how to use them at peak efficientcy, so if anyone has any Japan strategies to donate, including their "top" units, all help will be appreciated.
Thanx Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 778
Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Oct Mon 10, 2005 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Japan Strategies Anyone? Reply with quote

Guest121 wrote:
Hi, I'm kind of new to this game and I've tried all the countries, to me Japan seems to be in my favorite category, but I'm not really sure how to use them at peak efficientcy, so if anyone has any Japan strategies to donate, including their "top" units, all help will be appreciated.
Thanx Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy


Japan is a fairly expensive army to play with so your main goal early in the game is to grab as much production cash as you can, namely, cities and factories. This is best achieved with Assault Helos (Capture capable) as they can cover a lot of ground very quickly.

Meanwhile, take some armor and Super Cobra Attack Helos and start your march towards the enemy. Cover your advance with SPH, Recon is a must and don't let your supply lines lag too far behind. The real key with Japan is essentially a blitzkrieg IMO as they are best suited for being on the offensive and not in a slugging defensive match.
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Oct Mon 10, 2005 7:14 am    Post subject: Japan Reply with quote

Quote:
The real key with Japan is essentially a blitzkrieg IMO as they are best suited for being on the offensive and not in a slugging defensive match.


Which is ironic since its the JDF (Japanese Defense Force) Laughing

SF's idea is pretty sound, but I have a slight modification - if you want to use air power, you must capture as many airports as you can get your hands on since the Japanese, like the Germans and the Chinese, do not have a mid-air refueler. The Japanese's most useful aircraft IMO is the humbled, aged F-4, configured for ground attack. In this modification it loads a pair of Guided Bombs, but only has fuel 60, meaning its range is quite limited in this configuration, but being able to hammer your enemy with two or three Phantoms will greatly speed your advance.

Also, consider using the Type 96 MPMS TD truck, following along behind your armored column with your SPHs. Pop these forward to hit forward tank formations before you move your tanks in since they have a range of 3. Once you've killed 1 or 2 tanks from multiple forward tank formations, you can move your own Type 90s in. The thing with the Type 90 is that it's the most accurate tank in the game with a beginning accuracy rating of 72. With numerical superiority and a powerful main gun, this will give you the drop on most other kinds of tanks (especially Russian and Chinese tanks).

Also as SF said, keep your supply trucks pretty close. You'll want around 1 for every five units to be resupplied. If you can maintain your fuel and ammo stores as you continue on with your advance, you will have a lot of success. The most important thing is to keep your tanks and SPHs healthy, since they are so expensive in comparison to what you get. This isn't saying they're bad, but the Type 90 is no more powerful than the Abrams, though it has a slight accuracy advantage.

Also, keep a couple of OH-1s up in the air since they are the Japanese's only recon heli, and they are armed with a couple of Stinger missiles for heli interception. They aren't a great heli, but their recon range makes them very useful. The Japs also have a decent Recon jet, also an F-4 variant. Use it when you have enough airports to rely on, and protect these airports as much as possible.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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Location: Chicago Suburbs, IL USA

PostPosted: Oct Tue 11, 2005 11:10 am    Post subject: Re: Japan Reply with quote

ElricJC wrote:
Quote:
The real key with Japan is essentially a blitzkrieg IMO as they are best suited for being on the offensive and not in a slugging defensive match.


Which is ironic since its the JDF (Japanese Defense Force) Laughing


Lol, indeed it's rather funny. However, if you look at it, they have to do more with less and as such, it's a good strategy go on the offensive at the first point of contact.

ElricJC wrote:
SF's idea is pretty sound, but I have a slight modification - if you want to use air power, you must capture as many airports as you can get your hands on since the Japanese, like the Germans and the Chinese, do not have a mid-air refueler. The Japanese's most useful aircraft IMO is the humbled, aged F-4, configured for ground attack. In this modification it loads a pair of Guided Bombs, but only has fuel 60, meaning its range is quite limited in this configuration, but being able to hammer your enemy with two or three Phantoms will greatly speed your advance.


Yeah, The F-2s (Trying to remember if they are in the game.) are essentially F-16s (Just revamped by the Japanese.) and F-4s generally are a good bet. However, like Elric said, they are very short legged but useful nonetheless. I believe I'm just more partial to the Super Cobras for that very reason, well aside from the fact that it's the US Marine Corps attack helos.

ElricJC wrote:
Also, consider using the Type 96 MPMS TD truck, following along behind your armored column with your SPHs. Pop these forward to hit forward tank formations before you move your tanks in since they have a range of 3. Once you've killed 1 or 2 tanks from multiple forward tank formations, you can move your own Type 90s in. The thing with the Type 90 is that it's the most accurate tank in the game with a beginning accuracy rating of 72. With numerical superiority and a powerful main gun, this will give you the drop on most other kinds of tanks (especially Russian and Chinese tanks).


I forgot about that. Those TDs are some nasty sonnuva guns when you get into a slugging match and the enemy isn't quite expecting you to start hammering at them with units they can't retaliate against right off the bat.

ElricJC wrote:
Also, keep a couple of OH-1s up in the air since they are the Japanese's only recon heli, and they are armed with a couple of Stinger missiles for heli interception. They aren't a great heli, but their recon range makes them very useful. The Japs also have a decent Recon jet, also an F-4 variant. Use it when you have enough airports to rely on, and protect these airports as much as possible.


Don't forget that the helos can be resupplied via supply trucks if they have landed. This makes them great for short hops to screen enemy helos when they become a nuisance, which they inevitably do.
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Guest121
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PostPosted: Oct Tue 11, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Japan Strategies Anyone? Reply with quote

Thanx you guys, I now have some idea of what units to build and use in a combination with others. You guys know alot about the game it seems like, but for me, I didn't even know what you guys were talking about like Super Cobra and IMO (which I still don't know what IMO means, lol) until I played it. I needed the strategies because I play a friend almost every weekend at my house, he plays U.S. and I play as Japan, we are both pretty new to the game. If two pros played the game, one as UK and one as Japan, on a simple open map with average resources, who do you think would win?

Again thanx for you help. Very Happy Very Happy
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 7:48 am    Post subject: More Strat Reply with quote

Quote:
I didn't even know what you guys were talking about like Super Cobra and IMO (which I still don't know what IMO means, lol)


IMO = In My Opinion

Quote:
If two pros played the game, one as UK and one as Japan, on a simple open map with average resources, who do you think would win?


Well, that's hard to say outright because there are so many different factors that go into a successful military operation, and if one side utilizes the best features of their units more than the other player, then they have the advantage, but if the other player has a better strategy then he might have the edge as well. I'll break down UK and Japan for you and let you make the decision of which is better FOR YOU - because ultimately every player has a different playing style and some nations are better suited to some strategies than others.

UK vs. Japan

Tank vs. Tank: Challenger 2 vs. Type 90 - this usually goes to the UK, since the Challenger 2 has the best armor of any tank in the game (2% better than the Type 90, which may not sound like a lot, but it builds with greater unit experience), and is 50 credits cheaper, which also really adds up. However the Challenger 2 has a less accurate fire control system (2% less), which can balance the two out to a point. In practice though, I'd rather have the Challenger 2.

SPH vs. SPH (That's Self-Propelled Howitzer just in case you didn't know): AS90 Braveheart vs. Type 99 SPH - Well, to my memory these two are pretty balanced against each other, but the Braveheart is 380 credits, and I think the Type 99 is 350, but I might not be remembering clearly. As for ammo loads, I think the Type 99 is equal to or greater than the Braveheart, and both are just as fast and accurate. They're a toss up and it really depends on how intelligently you use them.

Fighter vs. Fighter: Well, this is more than just a one on one, since each side has multiple fighters. The Japs have the F-15 (always a good decision), but the Brits have the more modern Eurofighter 2000. As far as this game goes, the Eurofighter is superior in both weapons load and maneuverability. The Brits' second stage fighters are less impressive (the Tornados), and against the Japanese Eagles, Phantoms, and F-2s (an indigenous design based in part on the F-16), they can be matched. The Brits usually have an advantage here, but other things make them strong in this area which I will mention later.

Attack vs. Attack: Japs (F-4, F-2, and F-1) and Brits (Jaguar GR. 3) - The Japs F-1 is an OLD indigenous design, and it... well... sucks. Don't use it. The F-2 is a multiple role craft, and has some decent ground attack weapons (I think 1,000 lb bombs), but the F-4 reconfigured for ground attack is their best. The Brits Jaguar has guided bombs, is fast, and has low fuel. It is comparable to the F-4, but has more bombs, and is a true attack aircraft, meaning its main gun can fire at air targets one eleveation level lower than it, and it can attack ground targets with its gun from low elevation. Tha Jag is also cheaper, and thus wins out here.

Chopper vs. Chopper: Japs (Super Cobra) vs. Brits (Apache). Brits win. The Apache in this game is given the benefit of the AGM-114 Hellfire missile - and gets plenty of them, plus it has a load of stingers, and a 30mm armor busting autocannon. It really wins out over the Super Cobra (Sorry SemperFi, I know you love your Super Cobras Very Happy).

Naval: The Japs have some very nice destroyers, as do the Brits, but the Brits have a carrier (albeit a small one), and a nuclear sub with the capability to use the UGM-109 Ground Attack missile, but the Japs can still have success. Both have Amphib landing craft, but the Brits' Albion is the better of the two.

Miscellaneous -
Brits: Possess a mid-air refueler, necessary for long-distance air operations where airports are scarce or dangerous to land at.

Japs: Japs have full access to modern static AA missile units, which the Brits have none of. The Brits only anti-air unit is the iffy Starstreak SPSAM (Self propelled surface to air missile). The Japs only SPSAM is a dumpy little truck with some missile on it, but it works. The Starstreak is better than the Japs' truck because it has more endurance and is quite cheap. But the Starstreak is all they have for AD (Air Defense). This is a crippling lack in my book.

Japs: Type 96 MPMS, only TD unit in the game with a ranged Tank Destroying weapon. It is a little pricey for what it is, but it can save your ass if you use them smart.

Both: Both possess armed assault helos and transport helos, but the British Lynx assault helo is slightly better since it is faster.

Japs: Japs have a slightly better IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle), since it has a tank killing missile. Both have roughly equivelant scout vehicles.

Brits: The Brits have two armed land units capable of transport via helicopter AND can be airdropped from Low elevation - the Sabre recon vehicle, and their Tank Destroyer (its designation escapes me). Frankly, their TD kinda stinks, but if you are dropping it behind enemy lines simply to harass capture units, it can be very useful. Send two helos out, one with a TD, the other with a Sabre, and two squads of Spec. Forces, and you have a mobile capture/recon/TD force that can cause lots of trouble for the enemy. The Japs can't really match this capability.

Brits: The Brits have the harrier and the F-35 VTOL aircraft. These suckers can land on flat ground and be resupplied via supply trucks like helos. This makes them REALLY flexible - The F-35 can be a multi-role fighter, pure fighter, or Anti-Shipping (AshW) aircraft. The Harrier GR.7 is a ground attacker, and the Sea Harrier is an air-interdictor. The Japs have no VTOL craft (In fact, the only nations that possess VTOL are the UK and the US)

There are some other differences with AWACS, AEW, and transport aircraft, but as for combat utility units go, this is the spread.

If used well, either force is good, but the Brits have more mobility, but are deficient in Air defense. The Japs have a good tank, good SPH, excellent TD unit, good over all units, but theirs tend to be more expensive. The Brits have a limited number of unit choices, but the Japs don't have a huge reserve either. In my general usage I deploy British units in most water-filled scenarios or in scenarios where there are few airfields, but I use the Japs more because good AD is necessary for me. But make up your own mind, and have fun Smile. Happy hunting.
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SemperFi2382



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: Japan Strategies Anyone? Reply with quote

Guest121 wrote:
You guys know alot about the game it seems like, but for me, I didn't even know what you guys were talking about like Super Cobra and IMO (which I still don't know what IMO means, lol) until I played it.


Well, Elric answered the IMO.

As far knowing a lot of stuff about the game, keep in mind that this game does use real world units and aside from the fact that I'm a former US Marine and know my hardware. I'm also a military buff and know the gear and thus know what it does and how to use it. Twisted Evil
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 12:16 pm    Post subject: Outside knowledge Reply with quote

Quote:
As far knowing a lot of stuff about the game, keep in mind that this game does use real world units and aside from the fact that I'm a former US Marine and know my hardware. I'm also a military buff and know the gear and thus know what it does and how to use it.


While I do not possess the first hand knowledge or training of SemperFi here, I'm a military historian specializing in 20th century warfare, with a sub-specialization in AFVs. So I, too, know a thing or two about the actual units in the game and how they're used Smile.
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SemperFi2382



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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Outside knowledge Reply with quote

ElricJC wrote:
While I do not possess the first hand knowledge or training of SemperFi here, I'm a military historian specializing in 20th century warfare, with a sub-specialization in AFVs. So I, too, know a thing or two about the actual units in the game and how they're used Smile.


Nice. Hey this is a little off topic, but aside from Jane's, do you have any recommendations on stuff for research? Online can only get me so much and I'm curious to hear what you might be using to pickup info.
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Guest121
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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 4:11 pm    Post subject: Japan Strategies Anyone? Reply with quote

Thanx for all the info JC, wow that truly is alot of information on the two countries, now I have some testing to do and I will follow your guidelines throughout. So these units are based on real world units, but about the attributes such as accuracy, range, armor, and firepower, etc. Are those statisitics also approximately based on the real unit, or are the stats are just made up? And SemperFi as a former US Marine, that's awesome, JC, as a historian, do you know almost every war unit that was made in the 20 century? Because wow, I just think it's alot of info to know. Well, I got a match coming up in 2 days, and I need to go decide who I should be against a friend who plays US, I'll try out your tactics and I hope I'll make the right decision and WIN!!! (Not in a bragging tone of voice, lol Very Happy ) I'll check back here later.

Later guys, Thanx again. Very Happy Very Happy
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 4:12 pm    Post subject: Readings Reply with quote

Good list JVGFanatic, but I'll toss a few more out there. Another question is, "What time period?" Many of the books I personally own are about WWII tech, and WWI tech, but I have a handful of modern warfare books.

Grant, Chris. "Tanks". Summertime Publishing, Ltd. 2004.

Good overview of over 250 AFVs from the birth of the tank all the way on up to the most modern varieties, plus opening chapters on the nature and evolutions of AFV warfare and weapons. Great for "crunchy" data. Frankly, I haven't needed to buy another book on AFVs. It doesn't have EVERYTHING, such as SPHs, but if you're looking for info on tanks, armored cars, APCs, and IFVs, this is your guide.

Madej, Victor. "Italian Army Oder of Battle".

Overview of the Italian military in WWII. Lots of crunchy data on the little studied Italian efforts in WWII.


Bishop, Chris. "The Encylopedia of Weapons of World War II". Barnes & Noble. 1998.

More weapons, vehicles, and gear between two covers than you can shake a Rhinemetal 120 at. Great resource for WWII tech.

I can list more, mostly WWII, and a few more modern ones but I'd have to dig them out of storage since I can't remember all the titles, but these are the more "Crunchy" offerings I can remember right now. Other useful books on warfare, but not specific units, are "From Pearl Harbor to V-J Day" by D. Clayton James and Anne Sharp Wells, and "America's War in Vietnam" by Larry Addington are good, and short, historical overviews of America's military efforts in WWII and Nam. Got those when I took my American Military History class. They aren't stuffy history books, pretty good reads.

If I find more of my titles I'll shove em up here.
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ElricJC
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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 4:27 pm    Post subject: Huh? Reply with quote

Hey, where'd JVGFanatic's post go?

Well, as to your questions Guest121, the actual numbers are simply a game mechanics system, but their levels are based upon real-world comparisons of the effectiveness of a unit's systems. For instance, the Japanese Type 90 MBT possesses a highly sophisticated fire control system based on a fusion of German and American technology which includes refinements introduced by the Japanese themselves. Other tanks, such as the Challengers (particularly the Challeneger 1) were given below average accuracy numbers due to the historical unreliability of the British fire control in contests (the Challeneger 1 had a HORRIBLE debut during a Canadian international tank trial, coming in dead last). Other things like armor are simpler to quantify - the British Challenger is well known as the best armored tank in the world, the first to use the British developed Chobham armor (the composition of which is still largely unknown), while the Americans utilize a composite laminate that also includes depleted uranium, increasing the relative density of American armor while not greatly increasing weight. As SemperFi and I have discussed before, weapon ranges are kinda wonky because there is no set size scale in this game, but weapons known for long range are given long range. Hellfire missiles are notably longer ranged than the wire-guided TOW or HOT missiles, and missiles like the AGM-129 (fired from the B-2 Spirit) are known for having wacky long range. The statisitcs are, at best, rough approximations of real world systems and how they compare to each other. Hope that made sense Smile.
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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here it is, sorry. Deleted it cause I wanted to spruce it up a bit. Likely will not get to it til tomorrow.

Note: this is not my list, it comes from a topic on another message board about the Aegean theater in WWII.

Buckley, Christopher. Greece and Crete 1941. London: HMSO, 1952. Pretty good.

Detweiler, Donald S. (ed). World War II German Military Studies. New York: Garland, 1979. Contains an article on Marita which is good for outline information but lacks detail.

Farndale, Gen Sir Martin. The Years of Defeat Europe and North Africa 1939-1941. London: Brassey's, 1996. A general history of British field artillery with some notes on AA and AT artillery.

Horner, David. The Gunners. Sydney: Allen & Unwin, 1995.
Some detail on Australian and to a much lesser extent NZ and UK arty. Snippets on organisation & equipment but nothing concise or complete.

Kaltenegger, Roland. Deutsche Gebirgsjäger. Stuttgart: Motorbuch, 1977.
Excellent information about Greek border defences – lists strongpoints with manning and no. of MG of each.

Lehmann, Rudolf. Die Leibstandarte vol I. Winnipeg: J.J. Fedorowicz, 1987.
Contains several transcripts of orders, sitreps etc. Excellent.

Long, Gavin. Greece, Crete, and Syria. Canberra: AWM, 1953. Australian official history, a bit hard to follow and lacks detail in some areas.

Lucas, James. Alpine Elite. New York: Jane’s, 1980. Some brief information about minor engagements in Greece.

NZ in the Second World War official histories. http://www.nzetc.org/etexts/WH2-27Ba/index.html
Simply outstanding and probably the best resource for detailed information on battles involving NZ troops. Well-organised and easy to follow.

Routledge, Brig N.W. Anti-Aircraft Artillery 1914-1955. London: Brassey's, 1994.
General history of British AA artillery.

Terzakis, Angelos. The Greek Epic 1940-1941. Greek Army Press, 1990. A bit hard to follow as place names aren't consistent with other sources (possibly local name variations?). A good read in the 'heroic' style.

Weingartner, James. Hitler's Guard. Illinois: Southern Illinois University, 1974.
Outline history of LSSAH. Relies on German sources.

Defence of Greece Website. http://www.geocities.com/ww2greece/
Only available online source for detailed Greek data so far.
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SemperFi2382



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PostPosted: Oct Wed 12, 2005 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a good hefty list you two have got up there. I'll have to start cracking on getting my bookshelf up to date. At present, I know mostly about the US and Soviet hardware, but there are decided gaps that I'm trying to fill there as well as getting to know more all around. Cool

I'm mostly interested in WWII to the present, but I'm actually more into the Cold War to the present because that is the tech that I grew up reading about and studying in the Marines (as many nations use older Soviet Tech).
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DanielRuoss



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PostPosted: Oct Thu 13, 2005 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check your big name book stores when you can. I've found tons of books on military hardware on the bargain racks of many a Borders or Barnes & Noble. Modern and WWII. To list them all would take up way too much space. I think all of them are must haves! The good thing is that because they were 'bargain books' you can pop in and grab 4-5 without breaking your back.
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